Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

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Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Marz on Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:18 pm

Ok I don't know about everyone else, but I think it's time we came up with an agreed upon stagelist and ruleset for Utah Smash.


In the past I have had to play on Norfair, Corneria, Luigi's Mansion, Green Greens etc.

I don't necessarily have a problem with this...but it would be nice to know which stages would always be legal so I could prepare accordingly.

All of the national TO's have agreed to use this stagelist: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292389

Battlefield
Battleship Halberd
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1
Pokémon Stadium 2
Frigate Orpheon
Picto Chat
Rainbow Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
*One stage ban per player

Really small stage list no? I'm not a big fan of some of these stages and I feel like we could come up witha better stagelist....what about you guys?

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:35 pm

This is my opinion and what I usually go with:

- STARTERS - 5 Total -
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

- COUNTER-PICKS - 10 Total -
Brinstar (Melee)
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Norfair
PictoChat
Pokemon Stadium (Melee)
Pokemon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise (Melee)
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by мυтнα-ƒσχιη gαηgѕтαкιяву on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:37 am

Z'zgashi wrote:This is my opinion and what I usually go with:

- STARTERS - 5 Total -
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

- COUNTER-PICKS - 10 Total -
Brinstar (Melee)
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Norfair
PictoChat
Pokemon Stadium (Melee)
Pokemon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise (Melee)

this except for

there is no way in hell that lylat cruise is a neutral at all let alone CP material

anyone with an okish or linear recovery gets raped by the ledges here.

imho it should be BANNED its that bad

neutrals. true neutrals. are only FD BF and SV. sorry but its fact and always will be


norfair is a no. just no.

it takes how gay brinstar is and makes it have more platforms more camping and more ridiculously low cielings.

so basically ban norfair get brinstar ban brinstar get norfair.... we shud just make the stupidly stupider version be gone.

every thing else on that list is tolerable.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Marz on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:41 am

I think you could move Lylat to a counterpick and then have Pokemon Stadium 1 be a nuetral. I agree that Norfair is dumb. Norfair and Japes are like the ultimate timeout stages if someone actually wanted to do that.

If you only have 3 nuetrals you're just giving characters like Falco, Olimar, Snake, and Diddy a huge advantage in every set.....that's why 5 is better imo.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Sephiroth on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:43 am

Read the debates on Smashboards for the stages you ask to be banned. Lylat isn't ban material. lol

Also, what Marz said.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:53 am

I actually was debating between LC and PS1, but due to our top player being a sonic I picked Lylat lol. But I dont mind PS1 over top at all to be honest.

And with norfair, I only picked it as it gives characters with bad recovery like ganon and ivy another back up stage in brinstar was banned, but then again I dont mind it being gone either.

But overall, Lylat shouldnt be banned, it's not THAT bad.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Yaz on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:58 am

There should only be 3 neutrals... BF, FD, and SV. The other two should be moved to counterpick.

There's no way Norfair should be a counterpick. That stage is hella gay. It should be banned. Everything else looks legit though.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by мυтнα-ƒσχιη gαηgѕтαкιяву on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:36 am

Yaz wrote:There should only be 3 neutrals... BF, FD, and SV. The other two should be moved to counterpick.

There's no way Norfair should be a counterpick. That stage is hella gay. It should be banned. Everything else looks legit though.

this.


and to who ever says lylat ISNT a ban worthy stage, you have to be plain stupid to see how much the stage limits recoveries and boosts gimp capabilities and tbh its probably metaknights best stage ever. PERIOD.

like i shouldnt have to point out how retarded the stage is, do you really think every smasher ever wants to learn the loops and patterns of that stages movement? no and even if they did it would only make things BEYOND CONSIDERABLY worse for the character with worse recovery....

and on top of that its the only stage with that dumb feature out there


imho this stage detracts from and changes the acts of recovery and gimping so much so that it is ban worthy and at the very least the most horrible excuse for a CP stage ever and is by NO MEANS neutral what so ever.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Sephiroth on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:42 am

Just because you dislike it, doesn't mean it's ban worthy.

Just strike it and ban it when you play = Solution

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:44 am

Castle Seige part 3 does the same thing though, and it's a completely perfect stage. It also has walkoff ledges during both part 2 and the transitions.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Marz on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:52 am

As a Sheik player I hate Lylat as well, but I actually get screwed over by the ledges on Pokemon Stadium 1 more than Lylat. Lylat is in no way ban worthy.

Also Lylat is one of the few stages that allows characters that get screwed by CG's to prevent a lot of grab shenanigans.


Last edited by CDeezNuts on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:53 am

I actually like Lylat, and I've been raped by the ledges as well. Yoshi has a lot of tricks, mindgames, and opportunities to play gay there.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by TehWeirdDood on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:17 am

If we have a set map list for Utah smash, we should make a custom map. FOR UTAH! And it will be glorious, and the most balanced map ever, even while being in the shape of Utah. And we will be loved for being engineers of mass-advertise-ourselves by making our map OFFICIAL. And it will be. Oh it will be. We just need to talk to Nintendo. Easily achievable, obviously. Smile
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Skarmflames on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:19 am

no no no no no no no we shall do one in the shape of road island and like it.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Sephiroth on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:35 pm

CDeezNuts wrote:As a Sheik player I hate Lylat as well, but I actually get screwed over by the ledges on Pokemon Stadium 1 more than Lylat. Lylat is in no way ban worthy.

Also Lylat is one of the few stages that allows characters that get screwed by CG's to prevent a lot of grab shenanigans.

One of the best reasons to keep it.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:00 pm

If you watch my 4th vid against DS4 (from the lock-in) at PS1, I almost get raped by the ledge but a quick wavebounced up b saved my life.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Marz on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:13 pm

You would point out your own tech skill haha.

Seriously though what's the official ruleset for Utah? There's no LGL huh? I might just start planking people.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Sephiroth on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:28 pm

You would start planking, except Marth and MetaKnight can do it 10 times better.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:11 pm

Pssh, yoshi obviously does it better. Polt successfully killed DSF by planking. TWICE.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by мυтнα-ƒσχιη gαηgѕтαкιяву on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:40 pm

Sephiroth wrote:
CDeezNuts wrote:As a Sheik player I hate Lylat as well, but I actually get screwed over by the ledges on Pokemon Stadium 1 more than Lylat. Lylat is in no way ban worthy.

Also Lylat is one of the few stages that allows characters that get screwed by CG's to prevent a lot of grab shenanigans.

One of the best reasons to keep it.
it also gets them raped to fuck too by them. its simply who mindgames better.

and no lylat is terrible.

zz or whoever it was... castle sieges doesnt move like at all in comparison and its ONE small pattern AND YOU CAN RIDE UP ITS LEDGES UNLIKE LYLAT.

like damn.

just 3 stages.

its all we need at all

fd sv and bf.

anyone that needs anything else should learn to play the game better.

/thread.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Marz on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:17 pm

Lol I doubt you could even get ONE person to agree with you that Lylat souldn't be on the stagelist.....not ONE.

3 Nuetrals is like giving Diddy, Icies, Falco free win game one.....dumb.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Z'zShy on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:21 pm

If you're anti lylat you can use your ban on it. I'm anti brinstar so I ban it unless I have a legit advantage there. That's the point of having a ban.

So, for the five neutrals, I'm willing to drop Lylat and put it in CPs to add PS1 in instead.

Sephiroth was here. btw I fixed your post.
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by мυтнα-ƒσχιη gαηgѕтαкιяву on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:09 am

Marz wrote:Lol I doubt you could even get ONE person to agree with you that Lylat souldn't be on the stagelist.....not ONE.

3 Nuetrals is like giving Diddy, Icies, Falco free win game one.....dumb.

or you could try not getting grabbed or naner'd instead of being a scrub.

ledges that severely alter gameplay is like giving anyone with a straight shot type recovery a free loss game one.....dumb. almost as dumb as st louis smash

i main kirby who does quite well on that stage (extended gonzos and he doesnt get gimped by the ledges and extreme ease of gimping) and i still think its terrible for the general metagame to call that stage a cp let alone a STARTER

your giving anyone with alot of recovery options a stage that puts the match up against anyone else 30-40% higher in their favor

this shit should be banned because

1. the characters with recoveries that are quite safe DONT have to learn the stages movement to recover safely and are still going to be VERY safe
2. because the stage limits recoveries due to lack of walls combined with moving often just barely out of the way of what WOULD have been a safe recovery it makes it stupid easy to read and punish accordingly.
3. CHAINGRABS a scrub would think tilting stage means they wont get cg'd near as hard but actually a smart player is gonna be patient and take you for a nice long walk uphill
4. alil over half the cast gets raped by how dumb the ledges and non-existant walls.
5. most the cast that has ZERO problems here are high or top tier.

i would explain more but everything is pretty much an expansion on these with more description
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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by Marz on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:01 pm

мυтнα-ƒσχιη gαηgѕтαкιяву (Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:09 am) wrote:
Marz wrote:Lol I doubt you could even get ONE person to agree with you that Lylat souldn't be on the stagelist.....not ONE.

3 Nuetrals is like giving Diddy, Icies, Falco free win game one.....dumb.

or you could try not getting grabbed or naner'd instead of being a scrub.

ledges that severely alter gameplay is like giving anyone with a straight shot type recovery a free loss game one.....dumb. almost as dumb as st louis smash

i main kirby who does quite well on that stage (extended gonzos and he doesnt get gimped by the ledges and extreme ease of gimping) and i still think its terrible for the general metagame to call that stage a cp let alone a STARTER

your giving anyone with alot of recovery options a stage that puts the match up against anyone else 30-40% higher in their favor

this shit should be banned because

1. the characters with recoveries that are quite safe DONT have to learn the stages movement to recover safely and are still going to be VERY safe
2. because the stage limits recoveries due to lack of walls combined with moving often just barely out of the way of what WOULD have been a safe recovery it makes it stupid easy to read and punish accordingly.
3. CHAINGRABS a scrub would think tilting stage means they wont get cg'd near as hard but actually a smart player is gonna be patient and take you for a nice long walk uphill
4. alil over half the cast gets raped by how dumb the ledges and non-existant walls.
5. most the cast that has ZERO problems here are high or top tier.

i would explain more but everything is pretty much an expansion on these with more description

Everyone on Earth gets grabbed or hit by naners on FD or SV....it's like impossible not to. All your opponent has to do is strike BF and yup there ya go you have to strike FD and now you get to play on SV.

Bad ledges mean that you just have to aim your recovery onstage instead of for the ledge. Sure it's a disadvantage but not as much as 3 nuetrals letting Icies just buttrape you.

Also, what do you guys think about Halberd as a starter instead of PS1? I think the layout of the stage makes it more of a traditional nuetral stage unlike PS1 where some of the transformations give certain characters a massive advantage when your forced to wait the stage out.

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Re: Utah Stagelist and Ruleset Discussion

Post by мυтнα-ƒσχιη gαηgѕтαкιяву on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:58 am

there item game isnt good enough then, its POSSIBLE to avoid all that shit. you just have to play smart.

and id rather have halberd than lylat, but ps1 aint that bad tbh.
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